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bjorn_identity 1 days ago [-]
Citizens sometime commit crime. The Police justify indiscriminate gathering of evidence preemptively against all citizens using Flock based on the rationale that when a crime does end up being committed, the evidence will already be gathered.
Well, guess what? Police also commit crime. The same justification applies. If Flock is justified, this is justified.
cdrnsf 1 days ago [-]
Why police would never abuse their power. /sarc
yolp5 1 days ago [-]
[flagged]
Razengan 1 days ago [-]
Even taking the imbalance of guns and armor into account, citizens have more power, if they just realize it.
Millions against, what, a couple hundred thousands?
It's just that nobody wants to be the cannon fodder at the front that gets mowed down before the millions trample the thousands.. :')
AngryData 1 days ago [-]
It isn't that people wouldn't be willing to go on the front line, it's that any organization of people that could lead to a frontline forming gets immediate repression or violent response. People don't want to die on a frontline for those in the back if there is nobody in back, which requires organization. Organization that will by default be considered an authority challenge to all current governments, politicians, and wealthy and powerful.
It is why everyone goes so hardline on socialist ideals and labor unions. Organization is required for people to accuratly project their power. And any organization of common people puts the powerful people at risk of being usurped from their position.
1 days ago [-]
uoaei 1 days ago [-]
Well, no. Your statement is isomorphic to "might makes right".
Power determines rationalization. Justification is a moral question.
ahf8Aithaex7Nai 1 days ago [-]
> in reality power determines justification
In fantasy land maybe, reality is more complex than can be summed up in a barroom cliché.
bjorn_identity 1 days ago [-]
[dead]
plagiarist 1 days ago [-]
No justification is required. Police visiting this person over completely legal public photography is an egregious violation of First Amendment rights.
NDlurker 1 days ago [-]
This was in Canada
devin 1 days ago [-]
A bit pedantic, don't you think? Canada has protections for speech, even if they aren't the "first amendment".
NDlurker 1 days ago [-]
No
slopinthebag 1 days ago [-]
canada doesn't really have those actually.
free_bip 1 days ago [-]
They also ride into work on Polar Bears.
I can make stuff up too!
slopinthebag 1 days ago [-]
no we use moose for that
plugger 22 hours ago [-]
Same with Australia, individual free speech is not formally protected in legislation.
I've often thought about a number plate reading dashcam app for citizens that would warn you of dangerous drivers around you, let people flag the cars they want to call out. Moderation would be a nightmare though, but I thought you could have to submit some sort of proof (recorded from. The dashcam) but that just increases the moderation overhead... Of course AI could be help and hinder.
razster 1 days ago [-]
You could allow the user to flag it and keep the alerts to only them. They would get the alert, they could add notes of what happened so when that plate shows again they will know. Maybe build it so that you can add friends to a group and share plate details. It's GOLD Jerry!
But yeah moderation would be a nightmare still - I could see a ton of ways to abuse this. Criminals will figure it out as a source to track individuals, placing themselves in their known travel path, setup satellite spots to alert, that way for example if they're casing the joint they could have alerts when then individual is coming back.
Great, now ppl are going to make this app and use it for bad, see what you did.
ssl-3 1 days ago [-]
But I trust my friends. When my group tags an obnoxious driver's car and I'm alerted to it being nearby, then: That makes me feel safer.
All I had to do was log in on Autora and make a little friends group for everyone to join, and they handle the rest. It doesn't cost us anything! It's so nice of them to provide this service for everyday people like us.
I also signed up for some other groups I found on Facebook and those are pretty neat, too! I just do my regular driving like I always have, and every week they each drop a few dollars into my PayPal account. It feels great to make the world a little safer, and I haven't had to worry about paying for Disney+ for months now!
#blessed #couponing #sidegigs
andy_ppp 1 days ago [-]
Yeah you can’t even trust video any more, I’m not sure if there’s anything you can do with people who want to game the system.
Razengan 1 days ago [-]
Every law that lets police and politicians spy on citizens should have a corollary that lets citizens spy on police and politicians.
1 days ago [-]
cs02rm0 1 days ago [-]
I really detest the way surveillance seems to just increase without any democratic mandate.
ErroneousBosh 1 days ago [-]
> “One of them [the officers] took the time to specifically mention how scary it would be for them, because people would be able to find out where they lived, when they got on their shift and what they were doing throughout the day, and that that type of powerful information could put them personally at risk for any bad apples that might want to track them down,”
Yeah well, if you're not doing anything wrong you've nothing to worry about, eh?
So you’re going with: equating breaking the law by impersonating a police officer and reckless endangerment, to passive data collection with a camera? And not because it breaks the law, but because the police don’t like it?
Very brave man, good for you.
bko 1 days ago [-]
There are things that cops are allowed to do (surveillance) that citizens are restricted to do.
It's not complicated or some gotcha. I'm fine with police cameras that whose access is strictly controlled, monitored and used to fight crime, rather than some creep taking pictures of me and doing God knows what with it.
wongarsu 1 days ago [-]
Flock is however not a law enforcement agency. Legally they are no different from that YouTuber
bko 1 days ago [-]
This is Canada so there is no Flock. Try again.
nkrisc 1 days ago [-]
I’m not sure if you’re being sarcastic but that’s not really comparable.
Police do have privileges that ordinary citizens do not. That’s understood, and part of the reason they should be held to a higher standard of conduct than ordinary citizens.
Using their emergency lights and ignoring traffic rules in order to get to a real emergency is one of those privileges.
Widespread, automated mass surveillance is not one of those privileges.
bko 1 days ago [-]
Yes, they are held to a higher standard. That's why the surveillance tools police rely on are strictly controlled and monitored, unlike what this guy is doing.
So it appears we agree.
nkrisc 12 hours ago [-]
But then if what Flock (a private company) is doing is acceptable then what this guy is doing is acceptable under the same standards.
After all, they are doing the same thing: recording license plates in public view.
A related but different question is if police use of a private dragnet violates the fourth amendment. I believe that it does.
Well, guess what? Police also commit crime. The same justification applies. If Flock is justified, this is justified.
Millions against, what, a couple hundred thousands?
It's just that nobody wants to be the cannon fodder at the front that gets mowed down before the millions trample the thousands.. :')
It is why everyone goes so hardline on socialist ideals and labor unions. Organization is required for people to accuratly project their power. And any organization of common people puts the powerful people at risk of being usurped from their position.
Power determines rationalization. Justification is a moral question.
In fantasy land maybe, reality is more complex than can be summed up in a barroom cliché.
I can make stuff up too!
But yeah moderation would be a nightmare still - I could see a ton of ways to abuse this. Criminals will figure it out as a source to track individuals, placing themselves in their known travel path, setup satellite spots to alert, that way for example if they're casing the joint they could have alerts when then individual is coming back.
Great, now ppl are going to make this app and use it for bad, see what you did.
All I had to do was log in on Autora and make a little friends group for everyone to join, and they handle the rest. It doesn't cost us anything! It's so nice of them to provide this service for everyday people like us.
I also signed up for some other groups I found on Facebook and those are pretty neat, too! I just do my regular driving like I always have, and every week they each drop a few dollars into my PayPal account. It feels great to make the world a little safer, and I haven't had to worry about paying for Disney+ for months now!
#blessed #couponing #sidegigs
Yeah well, if you're not doing anything wrong you've nothing to worry about, eh?
Very brave man, good for you.
It's not complicated or some gotcha. I'm fine with police cameras that whose access is strictly controlled, monitored and used to fight crime, rather than some creep taking pictures of me and doing God knows what with it.
Police do have privileges that ordinary citizens do not. That’s understood, and part of the reason they should be held to a higher standard of conduct than ordinary citizens.
Using their emergency lights and ignoring traffic rules in order to get to a real emergency is one of those privileges.
Widespread, automated mass surveillance is not one of those privileges.
So it appears we agree.
After all, they are doing the same thing: recording license plates in public view.
A related but different question is if police use of a private dragnet violates the fourth amendment. I believe that it does.